"The most important thing is to be you"

an interview with Zoe Groves

I had the great privilege of interviewing Zoe from Take One TV. Here, Zoe reflects on finding her style as a trans woman. A human rights advocate, Zoe talks about the importance of taking our happiness in our own hands and shares pertinent messages whatever our gender. Skip to the end to watch a clip from the interview.

Zoe, please tell us a little bit about yourself.

Hi. Thank you for having me on. It's a real pleasure to be here. My name is Zoe. I'm a trans woman. I'm 41. I came out as a trans woman in my late 30s and I would never ever go back. It's been the best decision I ever made.

And part of that is because I feel like I'm not having to pretend to be something I'm not anymore. I spent most of my life, the way that I put it, is badly pretending to be a boy. I was very much a square peg in a round hole growing up. I felt like I was being forced into a mould that didn't quite fit me. As a closeted trans person you're having to second guess everything that you do: your mannerisms, the way that you talk, the way that you dress and you present yourself, but even the way that you move. If I was sitting down, I would be thinking, how should I cross my legs in this situation? Should I cross my legs at all? Is it too feminine for me to do that? And how should I talk to people? Self-moderating and masking my true behaviour the whole time.

And it is exhausting to do that. I got so used to doing it that I became quite good, suppose, at badly pretending to be a boy. I built a career for myself. I got married. Eventually, all of that, my old life, all fell apart. I found myself at real nadir, rock bottom, of my life. And came to a head where it was a case of a) I really do have nothing else to lose now and b), if I don't do something about this, I won't live to see my 40s. I either change something and live harmoniously with who I feel I really am or I just end it and that will be the end of my story. Fortunately, I chose to live. I chose to take my own happiness in my own hands and be responsible for that and I'm really really glad I did. It has its own challenges, but I'm just very, very happy with the way that things are going with me for now.

And we're very glad to have you with us as well. We are here two women talking about clothes, so how would you describe your style and how that's changed over time?

I'd describe myself as a nerdy goth. I like quite dark colours. I'm a big fan of purple. I wear a lot of blacks and greys, but I like to accentuate with some other colour. And I like to play around with different textures and materials. I never wear denim. I spent most of my life wearing denim and I hated it. I will never go back to denim. Sorry for all those jeans lovers out there, but I'm not one of you! Jeans are an easy, comfortable thing for a lot of people to wear because everyone feels they look presentable in them. But I've never found them comfortable. I don't think I look good in them. And I associate denim with that old life that I used to have. And I've always had an idea of the kind of clothes that I like to wear and the style that I like, and it's only in the last few years that I've been able to lean into that and I think it works for me. It's what I feel comfortable wearing.

One of the things I experienced, which is quite a common for trans women, is that we go through a period of looks before really finding our own individual style. There's a thing in the trans community called the dysphoria hoodie. It's usually a big baggy hoodie that's comfy and covers your body, most importantly. Quite often when trans people are in the closet or just in the process of coming out, they'll rely on their dysphoria hoodie quite a lot. Dysphoria is the medical name for transgender people for the incongruence between one's assigned gender at birth and their experienced gender identity. So when you're feeling dysphoric, you will quite often want to put on a big bulky hoodie that kind of covers you, that feels comfy, that you can blend into the background and not have people notice you quite so much. So I had a dysphoria hoodie. I still wear it very occasionally if I'm having a low-effort day. But that's one thing that the trans people quite often end up wearing.

The other thing for trans women and trans men is that there's a tendency - certainly among trans women - to overcorrect at the beginning of their journey. So you'll quite often find trans women wearing thigh-high socks and an 'Amazon basics' sort of pleated skater skirt look. That's a look that a lot of trans women go through at the beginning of their journey because it's fairly easy to wear, hides the shape of your body, emphasises your hips a little and it can be an affirming thing to wear when you're at the beginning and growing, maturing and coming into your own style. You're working out, does that actually suit me? Is that the kind of thing that people usually wear on a day-to-day basis? Does that actually work for me or is it drawing unwanted attention? Not that I'm suggesting that people should dress to please other people because that's what trans people do for most of their lives. They change the way that they present themselves and the way that they dress the way that they behave. Like I was saying earlier about badly pretending to be a boy. We often do it to make other people's lives easier, so I'm by no means suggesting somebody should change how they dress to fit in, but there is an element of evolving, working out what works for you, what doesn't work for you, and just trying different things and experimenting and seeing what does work and what doesn't.

I like layering tops. I often wear like a spaghetti-strap top or something underneath - a longer top or t-shirt. I like a boat-neck style. I really love things that expose my shoulders,

because it feels feminine. I wear leggings a lot because quite frankly I like the way my legs look and it makes me feel good.

What would you say to people in the trans community, particularly to those who haven't yet come out in their true identity and are still 'badly pretending', using your terminology, to be the gender assigned at birth?

The most important thing is to be you. I'm talking to you, prospective potentially closeted trans person, don't be afraid to try things. You will undoubtedly end up trying things that don't work but when you do find something that does work you'll know because you'll look at yourself in the mirror and you'll like the person looking back at you, you'll like the way that person looks. And when you've spent so much of your life hating that person in the mirror, hating the way that that person looks, it can be quite an emotional experience. Before I grew my hair out, I wore wigs and I remember the first time I did a full face of make-up (and I did it badly). I put my wig on and I dressed in my first proper gender-affirming outfit and I looked at myself in the mirror and I just started crying because I actually like the way that I look now. It made me feel really good and I knew that was the right thing for me.

And I know it's really scary as well. It's the first time you go out in the big wide world wearing clothes that feel right for you. It can be really, really scary. When I did it, I met up with a friend who I knew would have my back. We went to a pub, had some food, chatted and then I went home and that was my first time and it was fine. The only reason I was able to have that confidence is because I had my friend with me. So having a good support network is so important.

One of the things that I had to teach myself was how to do my own makeup. Because when you're raised a boy, nobody teaches you how to do makeup, nobody really teaches you how to look after your hair, nobody teaches you kind of basic grooming and nobody gives you fashion advice - you're just kind of left to it. Girls when they're growing up will often have their mum teach them how to do make-up and if not their mum they will talk to their friends and try things out with friends, they'll go shopping together and experiment, so that by the time they come of age they've already got what works.

The other piece of advice specifically talking to you prospective closeted trans women here: don't be afraid to experiment with make-up, but don't be surprised if the first time you do it, you kind of look like a toddler who's got an access to mum's make-up kit! The cool thing about make-up is that you can just take it all off and try again. There are lots of tutorials out there to learn what different eye shapes require in terms doing eye make-up, applying lipstick, contouring, and there are lots of people out there who will help you if you ask, so don't be afraid to ask for help.

What do you think cis people can learn from trans people?

Being trans is to go against the grain a little bit, and we have to experiment, we have to try new things. Sometimes we try things and it doesn't work. Sometimes it works brilliantly and sometimes when you're brave enough to try something that you might not necessarily think about trying otherwise, you find that something really, really works for you. One of my favourite pieces of clothing is a pair of pleather leggings. I feel just like a total badass in them! I had thought I would never be able to wear something like that until I tried it and I realised that actually it does work on me. So don't be afraid to try new things. Expand your horizons.

Trans people and cis people are both victims of patriarchal beauty standards. There's this idea of how people should look and behave, specifically how women should look and behave. It all comes from the media that we consume and the people we see online. Don't worry so much about what other people think of you because everyone else is so wrapped up in their own little world. know, nobody really cares Just wear what makes you feel good. You know, if you have a dress that you really, love that you want to wear that makes you feel good, wear the dress. Feel awesome.

Do you have a message for the fashion industry? And if so, what would that be?

What the fashion industry could really do more of is to use people with different body shapes and body sizes to model their clothing. You want to have marketing material for your products that is going to be attractive and the people wearing them to look good, but you don't have to always go with the same type and the same size of person so try modelling how clothes look at different sizes on different types of people. As a trans woman, I have quite broad shoulders and it would be nice to see how a top looks on somebody with a similar body shape to me to more easily judge whether it's going to work on me. And it would be nice to see more more plus-size models showing how it looks when you're not this idealised patriarchal standard living clothes rail that people see when shopping online. Remember that human beings are all different shapes and sizes. We all need clothes, and it would be nice to see more shapes and sizes of people being represented.

Is there anything else that you'd like to share?

One of my passions is human rights. In the last year, there's been a lot of things that have happened that have pushed things backwards. One of the reasons why I felt comfortable coming out, even when I was in my late 30s, was that I felt like our society had progressed to the point where it was more acceptable for trans people to come out. Back when I was growing up in the 90s, whenever you saw trans people in media in the 90s, we were always kind of the butt of a joke and it kind of gave this impression that if you were trans and you were open about being trans, you were just destined to become a pariah, inherently dishonest about who you really were, because it was seen that you were lying to people. Whereas actually the opposite is true: if you're out as a trans person, you're being more truthful about who you really are. I think that certainly over the last year, there's been a lot of pushback on that progressiveness.

I've been really lucky, personally. I've been accepted and embraced by the people around me, but there has been a pushback put forward by rich people with very bigoted views towards trans women in particular, but trans men as well. It's a different form of bigotry between trans women and trans men. Trans women are seen and openly spoken about by these people as dangerous, perverted kind of sexual predators that are somehow getting off on dressing and presenting ourselves the way that we do in public life. I shouldn't even have to say that that's not the case. But it's not the case.

And trans men are infantilised. They're seen as look at these poor women who just need to be picked up and coddled and put back on the right path. It's insulting. It's degrading. Ever since the Supreme Court ruling happened in 2025, things have been backsliding. Trans people aren't your enemy. We're not invading anyone's personal spaces. We don't want any more human rights than anyone else does. We just want the same human rights that everyone else does. Human rights aren't a zero-sum game. If trans people have the right to use a toilet that is associated with their gender identity or to take part in certain activities or the same activities that cisgender people can take part in, that doesn't mean that cis people are losing anything. It just means that trans people are being brought up to the same level. We just want to be treated the same as everyone else. We just want to live our lives in peace. And there's this relentless pushback. We're being used as a scapegoat for other issues. And the reality is that we're not your enemies. We all live on the same planet, we all live in the same societies. We just want to be treated the same as everyone else.

The other thing I really want to say is you have to take responsibility for your own happiness. Nobody is going to change your life in the ways that you need to change it in order to be happy. You have to do that. That's what I had to do in order to be happy with who I am. And it's the same for anyone else. Nobody else has that responsibility. Nobody else can take that responsibility from you. It has to be you that does it. And don't be afraid of doing that.

Thank you. So where can we find more about you?

I don't have a big social media following or anything like that. If you search for me on LinkedIn, you'll occasionally see me posting about human rights and what it's like being a trans person. I do run a business so I am a corporate video producer. I make videos for businesses. My company name is Take One TV, so if you want to see a little bit of the work that I do, search for Take One TV online. Check out our website, have a look at our showreel. We work with any type of business for any kind of budget. We do case studies, promotional stuff, testimonials. If you have a product or a service that you want to sell more effectively or if you have a story that you want to tell, it doesn't even necessarily have to be business-related. If you have a story you want to tell in a way that will connect with other humans and you want to humans make it for you rather than relying on AI, then we can help you out with that.

Thanks so much, Zoe, for the conversation and for sharing so much that's personal but also things that we can all learn from. It's been wonderful and thank you very much for your time.

Find Zoe on LinkedIn here

Find Take One TV here

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